{"id":12416,"date":"2021-02-17T19:30:00","date_gmt":"2021-02-17T16:30:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/?p=12416&preview=true&preview_id=12416"},"modified":"2021-02-18T19:45:04","modified_gmt":"2021-02-18T16:45:04","slug":"divanu-lugatit-turke-dair","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/divanu-lugatit-turke-dair\/","title":{"rendered":"D\u00eev\u00e2nu Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk’e dair"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Prof. Dr. Ahmet Bican Ercilasun<\/p><\/div>\n

Tu\u011f\u00e7e Me\u00e7 (T.M.):<\/strong> Merhaba Hocam. Bir dilci olarak sizin D\u00eev\u00e2nu Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk ile tan\u0131\u015fman\u0131z ve eserin sizin i\u00e7in \u00f6nemi hakk\u0131nda neler s\u00f6ylemek istersiniz? Merhum Ziyat Akkoyunlu ile beraber haz\u0131rlad\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131z TDK\u2019den \u00e7\u0131kan D\u00eev\u00e2nu Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk \u00e7al\u0131\u015fman\u0131z hakk\u0131nda bizi bilgilendirir misiniz? Bu \u00e7al\u0131\u015fman\u0131n Besim Atalay ne\u015frinden farkl\u0131l\u0131klar\u0131 nelerdir?<\/em><\/p>\n

Ahmet Bican Ercilasun (A.B.E.):<\/strong> 1950\u2019lerin sonunda, lise y\u0131llar\u0131nda D\u00eev\u00e2nu Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk (DLT) ile tan\u0131\u015fm\u0131\u015f olmal\u0131y\u0131m. Bilindi\u011fi \u00fczere lise ders kitaplar\u0131nda Alp Er Tonga a\u011f\u0131t\u0131 vard\u0131r ve bu a\u011f\u0131t\u0131n kayna\u011f\u0131 da DLT\u2019dir. Ancak lise y\u0131llar\u0131nda eserin \u00f6nemini kavram\u0131\u015f oldu\u011fumu s\u00f6yleyemem. \u0130stanbul \u00dcniversitesi Edebiyat Fak\u00fcltesi T\u00fcrk Dili ve Edebiyat\u0131 B\u00f6l\u00fcm\u00fcne girdi\u011fim 1963-1964 ders y\u0131l\u0131ndan itibaren DLT\u2019yi daha iyi ve bilin\u00e7li olarak tan\u0131d\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131 s\u00f6yleyebilirim. \u00d6zellikle Ahmet Cafero\u011flu\u2019nun verdi\u011fi T\u00fcrk Dili Tarihi dersinde.<\/p>\n

Kars \u0130li A\u011f\u0131zlar\u0131<\/em> adl\u0131 doktora tezimde DLT\u2019yi kullanmam\u0131\u015f\u0131m. Ancak 1975 y\u0131l\u0131nda yay\u0131mlanan T\u00fcrk Dili ve Edebiyat\u0131<\/em> Dergisi<\/em>\u2019nin XXI. say\u0131s\u0131ndaki \u201c-ma\u00e7, -me\u00e7 Eki \u00dczerine\u201d adl\u0131 makalemde DLT\u2019nin Besim Atalay yay\u0131n\u0131n\u0131 \u00e7ok s\u0131k kullanm\u0131\u015f\u0131m. Nevzat K\u00f6so\u011flu\u2019nun b\u00fcy\u00fck bir k\u00fclt\u00fcr hizmeti olarak yay\u0131mlad\u0131\u011f\u0131 14 ciltlik B\u00fcy\u00fck T\u00fcrk Klasikleri\u2019<\/em>nin 1985\u2019te \u00e7\u0131kan birinci cildinde \u201cKarahanl\u0131 Devri T\u00fcrk Edebiyat\u0131\u201d b\u00f6l\u00fcm\u00fcn\u00fc ben yazd\u0131m ve ilk defa DLT \u00fczerinde derinlemesine durdum. DLT\u2019deki \u015fiirlerin neredeyse tamam\u0131n\u0131 da o zaman manzum olarak T\u00fcrkiye T\u00fcrk\u00e7esine aktard\u0131m. 1990\u2019lardan itibaren de do\u011frudan do\u011fruya DLT \u00fczerine birka\u00e7 ilm\u00ee makale yazd\u0131m.<\/p>\n

Ziyat Akkoyunlu ile eserin \u00e7evirisine 1989\u2019da ba\u015flad\u0131k. O zaman ben Gazi \u00dcniversitesi Bas\u0131n \u2013 Yay\u0131n Y\u00fcksek Okulunun m\u00fcd\u00fcr\u00fc idim. DLT yazmas\u0131n\u0131n foto\u011fraflar\u0131n\u0131 getirtmi\u015f ve \u00fczerinde \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmaya ba\u015flam\u0131\u015ft\u0131k. Yani \u00e7eviriyi do\u011frudan do\u011fruya eserin orijinalinden yap\u0131yorduk. Ziyat Akkoyunlu Kerk\u00fck T\u00fcrklerinden idi, ilk ve orta \u00f6\u011frenimini Irak\u2019ta g\u00f6rm\u00fc\u015ft\u00fc. Dolay\u0131s\u0131yla Arap\u00e7as\u0131 \u00e7ok iyi idi. Ben de o tarihlerde Karahanl\u0131 d\u00f6nemi metinlerine iyice a\u015fina olmu\u015ftum. \u00c7\u00fcnk\u00fc 1979\u2019daki do\u00e7entlik tezim Kutadgu Bilig<\/em> \u00fczerine idi.<\/p>\n

Akkoyunlu ile ba\u015flad\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131z \u00e7eviri 1990\u2019lar\u0131n hemen ba\u015f\u0131nda yar\u0131m kald\u0131. Ben baz\u0131 g\u00f6revler ald\u0131m; Akkoyunlu Pamukkale \u00dcniversitesi’ne gitti. Dolay\u0131s\u0131yla uzun y\u0131llar \u00e7eviri \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmas\u0131na d\u00f6nemedik. Ancak 2008 y\u0131l\u0131nda \u00e7eviriye tekrar ba\u015flayabildik ve o y\u0131l\u0131n yaz\u0131nda kaba terc\u00fcmeyi bitirdik. Yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131z \u00e7eviri \u00fczerinde birka\u00e7 y\u0131l daha \u00e7al\u0131\u015ft\u0131m. Binlerce sorunlu yer vard\u0131. \u00d6nceki \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalara, T\u00fcrk leh\u00e7eleri ve a\u011f\u0131zlar\u0131 s\u00f6zl\u00fcklerine bakarak sorunlar\u0131 \u00e7\u00f6zmeye \u00e7al\u0131\u015ft\u0131m. B\u00fct\u00fcn bu \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar benim el yaz\u0131mla teksir k\u00e2\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131 \u00fczerinde karalama olarak duruyordu. Onlar\u0131n bilgisayara ge\u00e7irilmesinde ve dizinin yap\u0131lmas\u0131nda Gazi \u00dcniversitesindeki \u00f6\u011fretim \u00fcyesi ve asistan arkada\u015flar\u0131m\u0131n \u00e7ok yard\u0131mlar\u0131 oldu. Tabii bilgisayara ge\u00e7irilen metinleri ve dizini de tek tek kontrol ediyordum. Yine de dizinde baz\u0131 \u015feyleri g\u00f6zden ka\u00e7\u0131rm\u0131\u015f\u0131m. T\u00fcrk Dil Kurumunca bas\u0131lan eserin son sayfas\u0131na \u015fu tarihi yazm\u0131\u015f\u0131m: 23 A\u011fustos 2012 Per\u015fembe. Eserin bas\u0131lmas\u0131 ise 2014\u2019\u00fc buldu. Sevgili arkada\u015f\u0131m Ziyat Akkoyunlu maalesef eserin bas\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 g\u00f6remedi. Tanr\u0131\u2019dan kendisine rahmetler diliyorum.<\/p>\n

TDK g\u00f6revlilerinin titiz \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131yla ince k\u00e2\u011f\u0131da tek ciltlik (CXIX + 995 sayfa) m\u00fckemmel bir bask\u0131 ortaya \u00e7\u0131kt\u0131. \u00c7ok da ucuz fiyat konuldu. Bug\u00fcn d\u00f6rd\u00fcnc\u00fc bask\u0131s\u0131 yap\u0131ld\u0131.<\/p>\n

Bizim \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmam\u0131z\u0131n Besim Atalay ne\u015frinden de ABD\u2019deki Dankoff \u2013 Kelly ne\u015frinden de \u00e7ok farkl\u0131l\u0131klar\u0131 var. Tabii ki sorun olmayan yerlerde farkl\u0131l\u0131k yok. K\u00f6z,<\/em> b\u00fct\u00fcn \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalarda \u201cg\u00f6z\u201d, kel-<\/em> b\u00fct\u00fcn yay\u0131nlarda \u201cgelmek\u201dtir. Ancak eserde binlerce sorunlu yer de vard\u0131: okunu\u015f sorunlar\u0131, anlamland\u0131rma sorunlar\u0131. Bizim eserimizin en \u00f6nemli fark\u0131 i\u015fte bu sorunlu yerlere \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fcm bulmaya \u00e7al\u0131\u015fan dipnotlardad\u0131r. Yay\u0131n\u0131m\u0131zda tam 2259 dipnot var. Bunlar\u0131n \u00f6nemli bir k\u0131sm\u0131 \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fcm dipnotlar\u0131d\u0131r. Bizden \u00f6nceki yay\u0131nlarda nas\u0131l okunmu\u015f, nas\u0131l anlam verilmi\u015f, biz nas\u0131l okuyup nas\u0131l anlam vermi\u015fiz? Dipnotlarda bunlar\u0131 hep a\u00e7\u0131klad\u0131k. Leh\u00e7elerle, a\u011f\u0131zlarla kar\u015f\u0131la\u015ft\u0131rarak en do\u011fru oldu\u011funu d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnd\u00fc\u011f\u00fcm\u00fcz sonu\u00e7lara ula\u015fmaya \u00e7al\u0131\u015ft\u0131k. Bu tip dipnotlar\u0131n her biri asl\u0131nda 8-10 sayfal\u0131k bir makalenin 3-4 sat\u0131ra s\u0131\u011fd\u0131r\u0131lm\u0131\u015f sonucudur.<\/p>\n

Eserin ba\u015f\u0131nda bulunan 100 sayfa civar\u0131ndaki giri\u015f k\u0131sm\u0131n\u0131n da \u00f6zg\u00fcn ve ayr\u0131nt\u0131l\u0131 bir \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma oldu\u011funu hat\u0131rlatmal\u0131y\u0131m.<\/p>\n

T.M.:<\/strong> D\u00eev\u00e2nu Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk\u2019\u00fcn ilgin\u00e7 ke\u015fif hik\u00e2yesinin ard\u0131ndan, eser ilim \u00e2leminin dikkatini ne zaman \u00e7ekmi\u015f, \u00fczerinde \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar ne zaman ba\u015flam\u0131\u015ft\u0131r?<\/em><\/p>\n

A.B.E.:<\/strong> Eser \u00fczerindeki ilk \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma Kilisli Muallim Rifat\u2019a aittir. Yazmay\u0131 bulup sat\u0131n alan, dolay\u0131s\u0131yla eserin sahibi olan Ali Emir\u00ee Efendi bir tek ona g\u00fcveniyordu. Kilisli Rifat aylarca Emir\u00ee Efendi\u2019nin evine giderek birbirine kar\u0131\u015fm\u0131\u015f olan yapraklar\u0131 d\u00fczeltip s\u0131raya koydu. Sonra da Ziya G\u00f6kalp ve Talat Pa\u015fa\u2019n\u0131n \u0131srar\u0131yla eser yay\u0131n safhas\u0131na girdi. Kilisli her g\u00fcn 10-15 sayfay\u0131 eliyle yaz\u0131p dizgiciye g\u00f6t\u00fcr\u00fcyor, dizgici de onlar\u0131 diziyordu. Bu \u015fekilde bask\u0131ya haz\u0131rlanan eser 1915-1917 y\u0131llar\u0131nda \u00fc\u00e7 cilt olarak yay\u0131mland\u0131. Ancak bu bir \u00e7eviri de\u011fildi. Yazman\u0131n matbaa harfleriyle bas\u0131lmas\u0131ndan ibaretti. B\u00f6yleydi ama bu da \u00e7ok \u00f6nemliydi. \u00c7\u00fcnk\u00fc tek olan yazma b\u00f6ylece bas\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131 say\u0131 kadar \u00e7o\u011falm\u0131\u015f ve ilim d\u00fcnyas\u0131na sunulmu\u015f oldu.<\/p>\n

Kilisli Rifat ne\u015fri \u00fczerine T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de ve Almanya\u2019da ilk \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar ba\u015flad\u0131. T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de Abdulahad Nuri 1918-1923 y\u0131llar\u0131nda, Necip As\u0131m 1922-1923 y\u0131llar\u0131nda DLT\u2019deki atas\u00f6zlerini yay\u0131mlad\u0131lar. Almanya\u2019da da hem T\u00fcrkolog hem Arabist olan Carl Brockelmann 1920\u2019lerin hemen ba\u015f\u0131nda DLT\u2019deki atas\u00f6zleriyle \u015fiirleri yay\u0131mlad\u0131. Ziya G\u00f6kalp, T\u00fcrk medeniyeti \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131nda, Fuat K\u00f6pr\u00fcl\u00fc de edebiyat \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131nda DLT\u2019yi de\u011ferlendirmeye ve ondan neticeler \u00e7\u0131karmaya ba\u015flad\u0131lar. Nihayet Brockelmann 1928\u2019de eserin Alman alfabesine g\u00f6re ve kelimelerin Almanca kar\u015f\u0131l\u0131klar\u0131yla dizinini yay\u0131mlad\u0131. \u0130lk \u00e7eviri de Kilisli Rifat\u2019a aittir fakat o kay\u0131pt\u0131r. Yay\u0131mlanamam\u0131\u015f ba\u015fka \u00e7eviriler de vard\u0131r. Yay\u0131mlanan ilk \u00e7eviri Besim Atalay\u2019a aittir (1939-1941). Atalay\u2019\u0131n dizin cildi de 1943\u2019te \u00e7\u0131km\u0131\u015ft\u0131r.<\/p>\n

T.M.:<\/strong> B\u00f6yle bir \u015faheseri yazan K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud hakk\u0131nda neler biliyoruz? D\u00eev\u00e2nu Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk\u2019\u00fc hangi \u015fartlar alt\u0131nda, nerede yazm\u0131\u015ft\u0131r?<\/em><\/p>\n

A.B.E.:<\/strong> K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud hakk\u0131ndaki bilgilerimiz \u00e7ok fazla de\u011fil. Onun hakk\u0131ndaki bilgiler, kendi eserinde verdiklerinden ibaret. Onlar da \u00e7ok az. Babas\u0131 H\u00fcseyin, Barsgan \u015fehrinden. Dedesinin ad\u0131 Muhammed. Atalar\u0131, S\u00e2mano\u011fullar\u0131ndan T\u00fcrk diyar\u0131n\u0131 fetheden kimseler. Kendisi K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131. K\u00e2\u015fgar civar\u0131ndaki Ad\u0131g, Opal ve Kas\u0131\u2019dan \u201cbizim k\u00f6y\u00fcm\u00fcz\u201d veya \u201cbize ait yer\u201d diye bahsediyor. Ailesi hakk\u0131ndaki bilgiler i\u015fte bunlar. Kendisi hakk\u0131nda da eserinin giri\u015finde \u015funlar\u0131 s\u00f6yl\u00fcyor:<\/p>\n

\u201cBen onlar\u0131n (T\u00fcrklerin) \u00fclkelerini ve bozk\u0131rlar\u0131n\u0131 inceledim; T\u00fcrk, T\u00fcrkmen, O\u011fuz, \u00c7igil, Ya\u011fma ve K\u0131rg\u0131zlar\u0131n leh\u00e7elerini ve kafiyelerini \u00f6\u011frendim. Zaten ben onlar\u0131n, dilde en do\u011fruyu bilenlerinden, anlat\u0131mda en a\u00e7\u0131k olanlar\u0131ndan, ak\u0131lca en yetkinlerinden, soyca en k\u00f6kl\u00fclerinden, m\u0131zrakta en iyi at\u0131c\u0131lar\u0131ndan\u0131m. B\u00f6ylece her boyun dili bende en m\u00fckemmel \u015feklini buldu.\u201d<\/p>\n

Tabii eserin i\u00e7eri\u011finden de onun ki\u015fili\u011fi hakk\u0131nda bilgiler ediniyoruz. Arap\u00e7ay\u0131, Fars\u00e7ay\u0131, d\u00f6neminin standart T\u00fcrk\u00e7esini ve leh\u00e7elerini iyi bilen bir bilim adam\u0131. T\u00fcrk olmakla \u00f6v\u00fcnen bir T\u00fcrk\u00e7\u00fc ve samimi bir M\u00fcsl\u00fcman. K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud’un muzip bir yan\u0131 da var ki onunla ilgili ben bir makale yazm\u0131\u015ft\u0131m.<\/p>\n

Atalar\u0131n\u0131n T\u00fcrk diyar\u0131n\u0131 fethetti\u011fi bilgisinden hareketle Omeljan Pritsak, T\u00fcrkiyat Mecmuas\u0131\u2019n\u0131n X. cildinde (1953) \u201cMahmud K\u00e2\u015fgar\u00ee Kimdir?\u201d ba\u015fl\u0131kl\u0131 bir makale yazm\u0131\u015ft\u0131. Bu makalesinde Pritsak, K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud’un \u201cS\u00e2mano\u011fullar\u0131ndan T\u00fcrk diyar\u0131n\u0131 fetheden atam\u0131zd\u0131r.\u201d ibaresine dayanarak onun Karahanl\u0131 h\u00fck\u00fcmdar s\u00fclalesine mensup oldu\u011funu ileri s\u00fcrer. Ben de ayn\u0131 d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcncedeyim; K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud, Satuk Bu\u011fra Han\u2019\u0131n alt\u0131nc\u0131 g\u00f6bekten torunudur. Tabii bu konu tart\u0131\u015fmal\u0131d\u0131r. Baz\u0131 bilim adamlar\u0131 K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud’un hanedandan oldu\u011funu kabul etmez. Ama onun asil bir soydan geldi\u011fi konusunda ihtilaf yoktur.<\/p>\n

Bir de 1950\u2019lerden itibaren Do\u011fu T\u00fcrkistanl\u0131 bilim adamlar\u0131n\u0131n ara\u015ft\u0131rmalar\u0131 var. Kas\u0131m Rahim, \u0130brahim Mutiy, Mirsultan Osmanov ve Dolkun Kamberi gibi Uygur bilim adamlar\u0131, baz\u0131 s\u00f6zl\u00fc rivayetlerle baz\u0131 belgelere dayanarak Opal\u2019deki bir medresenin K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud’a ait oldu\u011funu ve t\u00fcrbesinin de orada bulundu\u011funu tespit etmi\u015flerdir. Opal\u2019deki medrese ve t\u00fcrbe 1983\u2019te m\u00fcze h\u00e2line getirilmi\u015ftir ve m\u00fczenin bah\u00e7esine de K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud’un b\u00fcy\u00fck bir heykeli dikilmi\u015ftir. Ancak son haberlere g\u00f6re bu heykel \u00c7inliler taraf\u0131ndan y\u0131k\u0131lm\u0131\u015ft\u0131r. Tabii Uygur bilim adamlar\u0131n\u0131n ara\u015ft\u0131rmalar\u0131, K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud’un, Ba\u011fdat\u2019ta eserini yazd\u0131ktan bir s\u00fcre sonra \u00fclkesine d\u00f6nd\u00fc\u011f\u00fcn\u00fc ve orada bir medrese kurdu\u011funu da g\u00f6steriyor.<\/p>\n

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Kuna \u015fehri, Opal k\u00f6y\u00fcnde bulunan ve \u00c7in taraf\u0131ndan y\u0131k\u0131lan K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud An\u0131t\u0131<\/p><\/div>\n

T.M.:<\/strong> D\u00eev\u00e2nu Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk pek \u00e7ok a\u00e7\u0131dan ilkleri bar\u0131nd\u0131ran bir eser. Bir s\u00f6zl\u00fckten \u00e7ok daha fazlas\u0131n\u0131 yazan K\u00e2\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud\u2019un dile, tarihe, k\u00fclt\u00fcre olan hassasiyeti nedir?<\/em><\/p>\n

A.B.E.:<\/strong> Nelerin ilki? Bilinen ilk T\u00fcrk\u00e7e s\u00f6zl\u00fck. O\u011fuz boylar\u0131n\u0131n adlar\u0131n\u0131 ve damgalar\u0131n\u0131 veren ilk kaynak. Alp Er Tonga a\u011f\u0131t\u0131n\u0131n ilk ve tek kayna\u011f\u0131. \u015eu destan\u0131n\u0131n ve bu destanda ge\u00e7en O\u011fuzlarla ve Uygurlarla ilgili bilgilerin tek kayna\u011f\u0131. 11. y\u00fczy\u0131ldaki bir\u00e7ok T\u00fcrk \u00e2det ve gelene\u011finin, tar\u0131m, hayvanc\u0131l\u0131k, avc\u0131l\u0131k, giyim ku\u015fam, yeme i\u00e7me, al\u0131\u015f veri\u015f vb. ile ilgili bir\u00e7ok fiil, i\u015flem ve malzemenin ilk kayna\u011f\u0131, T\u00fcrk boylar\u0131n\u0131n a\u011f\u0131zlar\u0131yla ilgili bilgi veren ilk eser, T\u00fcrk atas\u00f6zlerini ve \u015fiirlerini toplayan ilk kaynak. Ve nihayet Balasagun\u2019u merkeze alan, Japonya\u2019n\u0131n yerini dahi g\u00f6steren ilk T\u00fcrk haritas\u0131.<\/p>\n

\u00d6nce bilim adam\u0131 oldu\u011fu i\u00e7in bu konularda hassast\u0131r. Sonra da T\u00fcrk\u00e7\u00fc oldu\u011fu i\u00e7in. O, eserinde T\u00fcrk\u00e7enin Arap\u00e7adan geri kal\u0131r yan\u0131 olmad\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 g\u00f6stermek istemi\u015f ve eserinde bunu a\u00e7\u0131k\u00e7a belirtmi\u015ftir.<\/p>\n

T.M.:<\/strong> Ge\u00e7i\u015f devri eserleri aras\u0131nda D\u00eev\u00e2nu Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk\u2019\u00fcn yeri ve \u00f6nemi nedir? Araplara T\u00fcrk\u00e7eyi \u00f6\u011fretmek amac\u0131yla ve \u201cT\u00fcrk dili ile Arap dilinin\u00a0atba\u015f\u0131beraber y\u00fcr\u00fcd\u00fckleri bilinsin diye\u201d yaz\u0131lan eser, devri i\u00e7inde de\u011ferlendirildi\u011finde amac\u0131na ula\u015fabildi\u011fini s\u00f6ylemek m\u00fcmk\u00fcn m\u00fcd\u00fcr?<\/em><\/p>\n

A.B.E.:<\/strong> \u201cGe\u00e7i\u015f Devri\u201d diyerek herhalde DLT\u2019nin T\u00fcrklerin ilk \u0130slami eserlerinden biri oldu\u011funu kastediyorsunuz. Bana g\u00f6re 10. y\u00fczy\u0131lda T\u00fcrklerin M\u00fcsl\u00fcman olmas\u0131 ayn\u0131 zamanda d\u00f6nemlerinin \u00e7a\u011fda\u015f medeniyetine girmeleri anlam\u0131na gelir. 10. y\u00fczy\u0131l\u0131n ortalar\u0131nda M\u00fcsl\u00fcman oluyorlar ve a\u015fa\u011f\u0131 yukar\u0131 100 y\u0131l sonra Ka\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud, Ba\u011fdat\u2019ta bu eseri yaz\u0131p halifeye sunuyor. Tabii DLT\u2019nin 1072-1077 y\u0131llar\u0131nda yaz\u0131lm\u0131\u015f olmas\u0131 sebepsiz de\u011fildir. 1055\u2019te Ba\u011fdat\u2019taki halifelik Sel\u00e7uklular\u0131n himayesi alt\u0131na girmi\u015f, 1071\u2019deki Malazgirt Sava\u015f\u0131 ile de T\u00fcrkler o zamanki d\u00fcnyan\u0131n bir numaral\u0131 g\u00fcc\u00fc h\u00e2line gelmi\u015ftir. Ka\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud bunun \u015fuurundad\u0131r ve eserini bu \u015fuurla yazm\u0131\u015ft\u0131r. Ayr\u0131ca o tarihlerde Abbasi hizmetinde y\u00fcz binlerce T\u00fcrk askeri ve \u00fcst makamlarda pek \u00e7ok T\u00fcrk vard\u0131r. B\u00fct\u00fcn bu sebeplerle T\u00fcrk\u00e7e \u00f6\u011frenme ihtiyac\u0131 ortaya \u00e7\u0131km\u0131\u015ft\u0131r. Herhalde baz\u0131 Araplar da T\u00fcrk\u00e7eyi \u00f6\u011frenmi\u015flerdir. Ama eserin amac\u0131na ne kadar ula\u015ft\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 s\u00f6yleyemem. \u015eunu biliyoruz: DLT, yaz\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131 tarihten 190 y\u0131l kadar sonra \u015eam\u2019da yeniden istinsah ediliyor. Elimizdeki yeg\u00e2ne n\u00fcsha da zaten budur. Eserin 190 y\u0131l sonra \u015eam\u2019da istinsah edilmesi ihtiyac\u0131n az da olsa kar\u015f\u0131land\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 ve devam etti\u011fini g\u00f6sterir. 1266\u2019da \u015eam ve Kahire\u2019de K\u0131p\u00e7ak T\u00fcrk devletinin (Meml\u00fckler) bulundu\u011funu da hat\u0131rlayal\u0131m.<\/p>\n

T.M.:<\/strong> Eserde T\u00fcrk dilinin ge\u00e7mi\u015ften yaz\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131 devre dek imk\u00e2nlar\u0131ndan \u00f6vg\u00fcyle ve \u00f6rneklerle bahsedilirken, m\u00fc\u015frik T\u00fcrklerle sava\u015f\u0131n ve bir M\u00fcsl\u00fcman T\u00fcrk\u2019\u00fcn Budist bir Uygur’u \u00f6ld\u00fcrmesinin \u00f6vg\u00fclerle anlat\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131 b\u00f6l\u00fcmleri nas\u0131l de\u011ferlendirmek gerekir?<\/em><\/p>\n

A.B.E.:<\/strong> DLT her \u015feyden \u00f6nce 11. y\u00fczy\u0131l \u00f6l\u00e7\u00fcnl\u00fc (standart) T\u00fcrk\u00e7esinin s\u00f6zl\u00fc\u011f\u00fcd\u00fcr. Ancak eserde ba\u015fta O\u011fuzlar ve K\u0131p\u00e7aklar olmak \u00fczere bir\u00e7ok T\u00fcrk boyunun a\u011f\u0131zlar\u0131na ve dil \u00f6zelliklerine ait bilgiler de vard\u0131r. \u0130lk ve zengin bir s\u00f6zl\u00fck oldu\u011fu i\u00e7in kendinden \u00f6nceki d\u00f6nemlere de \u0131\u015f\u0131k tutar. S\u00f6z geli\u015fi, K\u00f6kt\u00fcrk ve eski Uygur metinlerinin \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fcmlenemeyen pek \u00e7ok yeri DLT sayesinde \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fcmlenmi\u015ftir. 11. y\u00fczy\u0131lda Uygurlar Budisttirler. Ancak bug\u00fcnk\u00fc durum bizi yan\u0131ltmas\u0131n. Bug\u00fcn K\u00e2\u015fgar dahil b\u00fct\u00fcn Do\u011fu T\u00fcrkistan\u2019daki yerle\u015fik T\u00fcrklere Uygur diyoruz. Oysa Ka\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud d\u00f6neminde bug\u00fcnk\u00fc Do\u011fu T\u00fcrkistan\u2019\u0131n \u0130li \u0131rma\u011f\u0131n\u0131n bat\u0131s\u0131nda kalan k\u0131sm\u0131 Karahanl\u0131lar’a aitti ve Karahanl\u0131lar da Karluk, Ya\u011fma, \u00c7igil, Tohs\u0131 T\u00fcrklerinden olu\u015fuyordu. Yani bug\u00fcn Uygur dediklerimizin bir k\u0131sm\u0131 11. as\u0131rda Uygur olarak an\u0131lm\u0131yordu ve onlar 11. as\u0131rda M\u00fcsl\u00fcman idi. \u0130li\u2019nin ve Ku\u00e7a\u2019n\u0131n do\u011fusunda kalanlar tarih\u00ee Uygurlard\u0131 ve onlar da 11. as\u0131rda Budist idiler. M\u00fcsl\u00fcman Karahanl\u0131larla Budist Uygurlar aras\u0131nda 10. ve 11. y\u00fczy\u0131llarda baz\u0131 sava\u015flar olmu\u015ftu. S\u00f6z\u00fcn\u00fc etti\u011finiz \u015fiirler o sava\u015flara aittir ve o zamanki M\u00fcsl\u00fcman halk\u0131n duygular\u0131n\u0131 yans\u0131t\u0131r. Ka\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud’un da samimi bir M\u00fcsl\u00fcman oldu\u011funu s\u00f6ylemi\u015ftim. Yoksa Ka\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud\u2019un tarih\u00ee Uygurlara kar\u015f\u0131 kategorik bir d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131 s\u00f6z konusu de\u011fildir. \u015eu destan\u0131n\u0131 anlat\u0131rken Uygurlar\u0131n \u0130skender ordular\u0131n\u0131 yendi\u011fini de anlat\u0131r. Bug\u00fcnk\u00fc Uygurlar\u0131n, sadece tarihteki Uygurlar\u0131n de\u011fil ayn\u0131 zamanda Karahanl\u0131lar’\u0131 olu\u015fturan boylar\u0131n da torunlar\u0131 oldu\u011funu tekrar hat\u0131rlayal\u0131m.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

T.M.:<\/strong> Eserin en \u00f6nemli y\u00f6nlerinden birisi de i\u00e7indeki T\u00fcrk d\u00fcnyas\u0131 haritas\u0131. Bu harita hakk\u0131nda neler s\u00f6ylemek istersiniz?<\/em><\/p>\n

A.B.E.:<\/strong> Harita asl\u0131nda o zaman i\u00e7in bilinen d\u00fcnyan\u0131n haritas\u0131d\u0131r, ama T\u00fcrk d\u00fcnyas\u0131 merkezlidir. Ka\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud \u015f\u00f6yle diyor: \u201cRum yak\u0131n\u0131ndan M\u00e2\u00e7in\u2019e kadar b\u00fct\u00fcn T\u00fcrk \u00fclkeleri be\u015f bin fersah uzunlu\u011funda ve \u00fc\u00e7 bin fersah enindedir; toplam olarak sekiz bin fersaht\u0131r. Bunlar\u0131n hepsini, bilinsin diye, yerin \u015fekli olan dairede beyan ettim.\u201d Bu c\u00fcmlelerin arkas\u0131ndan harita geliyor. \u201cDaire\u201d dedi\u011fi haritad\u0131r. \u201cYerin \u015fekli olan daire\u201d de ilgi \u00e7ekicidir. Demek ki o zaman Do\u011fu d\u00fcnyas\u0131nda yerin daire bi\u00e7iminde oldu\u011fu kabul ediliyormu\u015f. Harita da ger\u00e7ekten daire bi\u00e7imindedir. Renkli olan haritada T\u00fcrk d\u00fcnyas\u0131n\u0131n merkez\u00ee b\u00f6lgesi tahta benzeyen k\u0131rm\u0131z\u0131 kal\u0131n \u00e7izgilerle belirtilmi\u015ftir. K\u0131rm\u0131z\u0131 \u00e7izgiler aras\u0131nda yani merkez b\u00f6lgede Balasagun, K\u00e2\u015fgar, Yarkent, Hotan, Barsgan, Taraz gibi \u015fehirler g\u00f6sterilmi\u015ftir. 360 derecelik dairenin \u00fcst yan\u0131 do\u011fu, alt yan\u0131 bat\u0131, sa\u011f yan\u0131 g\u00fcney, sol yan\u0131 kuzeydir ve bu y\u00f6nler dairenin d\u0131\u015f\u0131nda yaz\u0131yla belirtilmi\u015ftir. En do\u011fuda, o zaman M\u00e2\u00e7in denilen Kuzey \u00c7in vard\u0131r. Onun da do\u011fusunda \u00c7aparka ad\u0131yla Japonya g\u00f6sterilmi\u015ftir.<\/p>\n

T.M.: <\/strong>M\u00fcellifin Kitabu Cevahir\u00fc’n-Nahv Fi Lug\u00e2ti’t-T\u00fcrk eserini bulmaya y\u00f6nelik 2008 y\u0131l\u0131nda UNESCO\u2019nun \u00f6nc\u00fcl\u00fc\u011f\u00fcndeki \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131n sonu\u00e7suz kald\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 biliyoruz, bunun d\u0131\u015f\u0131nda yak\u0131n zamanda eseri bulmaya y\u00f6nelik bir giri\u015fimde bulunuldu mu?<\/em><\/p>\n

A.B.E.: <\/strong>Hay\u0131r, herhangi bir giri\u015fimde bulunulmad\u0131. Asl\u0131nda bu eseri bulmak, b\u00fct\u00fcn T\u00fcrkologlar\u0131n hayalidir. Ancak bu eserin ger\u00e7ekten yaz\u0131l\u0131p yaz\u0131lmad\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 da bilmiyoruz. Ka\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud bu eseri hakk\u0131nda yazman\u0131n 18. sayfas\u0131nda \u015f\u00f6yle diyor:<\/p>\n

\u201c\u00c7okluk, teklik, tafdil (s\u0131fatlar\u0131n \u00fcst\u00fcnl\u00fck derecesi), tasgir (k\u00fc\u00e7\u00fcltme) ve gramerdeki di\u011fer baplar da (bu kitapta) zikredilmedi. \u00c7\u00fcnk\u00fc biz bu konulara ba\u015fka bir kitap ay\u0131rd\u0131k ve ad\u0131n\u0131 Kit\u00e2bu Cev\u00e2hiri\u2019n-Nahvi f\u00ee- Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrki (T\u00fcrk Leh\u00e7elerinde Gramer M\u00fccevherleri Kitab\u0131) koyduk. Orada bu gramer meseleleri \u00fczerinde in\u015fallah (a.c.) durulacakt\u0131r.\u201d<\/p>\n

Bu ifadelerden, DLT\u2019yi yazd\u0131\u011f\u0131 s\u0131rada Ka\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud\u2019un gramerle ilgili eserini hen\u00fcz yazmad\u0131\u011f\u0131 gibi bir anlam da \u00e7\u0131k\u0131yor. Gramer kitab\u0131n\u0131 yazmam\u0131\u015f olabilece\u011fi ihtimaline ilk defa, \u015fimdi rahmetli olan Kerk\u00fckl\u00fc \u00dcmit Tokatl\u0131, Kayseri\u2019de \u00e7\u0131kan bir dergide temas etmi\u015fti. Ka\u015fgarl\u0131 Mahmud belki de daha sonra gramer kitab\u0131n\u0131 da yazd\u0131. Bunu \u015fimdilik bilmemize imk\u00e2n yok. Ancak \u015funu s\u00f6yleyeyim. DLT i\u00e7inde olduk\u00e7a fazla gramer bilgileri de verilmi\u015ftir ve bunlar d\u00f6nemin \u00f6zet bir Karahanl\u0131 T\u00fcrk\u00e7esi gramerini olu\u015fturacak \u00f6l\u00e7\u00fcdedir.<\/p>\n

T.M.:<\/strong> D\u00eev\u00e2nu Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk ile ilgili akademik seviyede yap\u0131lan \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar sizce yeterli midir? Daha neler yap\u0131lmal\u0131d\u0131r?<\/em><\/p>\n

A.B.E.: <\/strong>Ba\u015fta T\u00fcrkiye T\u00fcrk\u00e7esi olmak \u00fczere bir\u00e7ok T\u00fcrk leh\u00e7esinde DLT \u00e7evirileri ve yay\u0131nlar\u0131 vard\u0131r: \u00d6zbek, Uygur, Kazak, Azerbaycan. Ayr\u0131ca eserin \u0130ngilizce, Rus\u00e7a, Fars\u00e7a, \u00c7ince \u00e7evirileri de bulunmaktad\u0131r. Sovyetler d\u00f6neminde Rus\u00e7a olarak \u00e7\u0131kan Eski T\u00fcrk\u00e7enin S\u00f6zl\u00fc\u011f\u00fc ile 1972\u2019de bas\u0131lan Clauson\u2019un \u00fcnl\u00fc etimolojik s\u00f6zl\u00fc\u011f\u00fc de DLT\u2019deki b\u00fct\u00fcn malzemeyi i\u00e7erir. Marcel Erdal\u2019\u0131n \u0130ngilizce olarak yay\u0131mlanm\u0131\u015f Eski T\u00fcrk\u00e7enin Grameri kitab\u0131 da DLT\u2019deki b\u00fct\u00fcn malzemeden yararlanm\u0131\u015ft\u0131r.<\/p>\n

T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de Mehmet Vefa Nalbant ile Akart\u00fcrk Karahan\u2019\u0131n doktora \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131 do\u011frudan DLT \u00fczerine yap\u0131lm\u0131\u015f dil \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131d\u0131r. Ancak DLT\u2019nin \u00e7ok y\u00f6nl\u00fc bir eser oldu\u011funu yukar\u0131da s\u00f6ylemi\u015ftim. Eserdeki \u00e7e\u015fitli y\u00f6nler \u00fczerinde makale seviyesinde pek \u00e7ok \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma yap\u0131lm\u0131\u015ft\u0131r. DLT\u2019deki malzemeler aras\u0131nda en \u00e7ok dikkati \u00e7ekenler atas\u00f6zleri ve \u015fiirler olmu\u015ftur. \u0130lk \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131n da bunlar \u00fczerinde oldu\u011funu yukar\u0131da belirtmi\u015ftim. DLT\u2019deki \u015fiirler \u00fczerine Talat Tekin\u2019in 1989\u2019daki \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmas\u0131 \u00f6nemlidir. Ben de D\u00eev\u00e2nu Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk\u2019teki \u015eiirler ve<\/em> Atas\u00f6zleri <\/em>adl\u0131 bir \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma yapt\u0131m ve \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmam bu y\u0131l\u0131n ba\u015flar\u0131nda Bilge-K\u00fclt\u00fcr-Sanat yay\u0131nlar\u0131ndan \u00e7\u0131kt\u0131. Orada bu alandaki di\u011fer \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131n da k\u00fcnyeleri ve baz\u0131 de\u011ferlendirmeler var. Benim \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmamda \u015fiirlerin manzum olarak bug\u00fcnk\u00fc T\u00fcrk\u00e7eye aktar\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 ve edeb\u00ee a\u00e7\u0131dan da de\u011ferlendirildi\u011fini belirtmeliyim.<\/p>\n

DLT\u2019nin izlerini s\u00fcrecek \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar da yap\u0131lmaya ba\u015flanm\u0131\u015ft\u0131r. Mesela Kerk\u00fck T\u00fcrklerinden \u00c7oban H\u0131d\u0131r Uluhan DLT\u2019deki s\u00f6z varl\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131n bug\u00fcnk\u00fc Irak T\u00fcrk\u00e7esindeki izlerini ortaya koyan bir \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma yapm\u0131\u015ft\u0131r. Ancak bu eser hen\u00fcz yay\u0131mlanmam\u0131\u015ft\u0131r. Onun gibi DLT\u2019nin izleri b\u00fct\u00fcn leh\u00e7elerde aranabilir. Hangi kelimeler hangi T\u00fcrk leh\u00e7esinde ne \u015fekilde devam ediyor? Bu sorunun cevab\u0131 her leh\u00e7e i\u00e7in bir kitap hacminde \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma olur.<\/p>\n

DLT\u2019nin bulunu\u015fuyla ilgili g\u00fczel bir roman yaz\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 ve yay\u0131mland\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 da bu arada haber vereyim: Feyzi Ersoy, Bir Kitaba Tutuldum \u2013 D\u00eev\u00e2nu L\u00fcg\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk\u2019\u00fcn Roman\u0131.<\/em> Denizlili \u00e7ocuk romanc\u0131s\u0131 Hasan Kallimci\u2019nin bu konuda yazd\u0131\u011f\u0131 \u00e7ocuk roman\u0131 ise bildi\u011fim kadar\u0131yla hen\u00fcz yay\u0131mlanmam\u0131\u015ft\u0131r.<\/p>\n

T.M.:<\/strong> Verdi\u011finiz k\u0131ymetli bilgiler i\u00e7in \u00e7ok te\u015fekk\u00fcr ederiz.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

S\u00f6\u011f\u00fct dergisinden Tu\u011f\u00e7e Me\u00e7 ile Prof Dr. Ahmet Bican Ercilasun’un D\u00eev\u00e2nu Lug\u00e2ti\u2019t-T\u00fcrk \u00fczerine yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131 bu s\u00f6yle\u015fi, S\u00f6\u011f\u00fct dergisinin Ocak-\u015eubat 2021 say\u0131s\u0131nda yay\u0131mlanm\u0131\u015ft\u0131r.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":10,"featured_media":12421,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_ef_editorial_meta_date_first-draft-date":"","_ef_editorial_meta_paragraph_assignment":"","footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"categories":[62,2,66,68],"tags":[1119,1593,515,1646],"coauthors":[11],"class_list":["post-12416","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-egitim-kultur","category-genel","category-siyaset-tarih","category-turkluk-turkculuk","tag-ahmet-bican-ercilasun","tag-divanu-lugatit-turk","tag-kasgarli-mahmud","tag-sogut-dergisi"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12416","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/10"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=12416"}],"version-history":[{"count":13,"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12416\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":12443,"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12416\/revisions\/12443"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/12421"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=12416"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=12416"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=12416"},{"taxonomy":"author","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/millidusunce.com\/misak\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/coauthors?post=12416"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}